Profile 006: Ronald Burton III, Independent Stylist
Ronald Burton III is a freelance fashion stylist and former Fashion Director whose mission has been to tell stories and give visibility to the faces of Blackness, queerness, and otherness. From Document Journal to StyleBop, Ron has contributed to fashion through shoots and costuming to selecting the pieces that we the consumer actually purchase. Hailing from Philly, Ron talks to us about finding his voice, believing in his message, and his commitment to his own personal growth.
What do you do professionally?
I'm a freelance stylist and fashion editor. My first job within the industry was a full time stylist assistant which I did for 3 years prior to me joining Document Journal (Document). I joined DOCUMENT as the Fashion Market & Accessories Editor covering and overseeing all of the fashion and accessory markets. In this role I was responsible for observing and digesting everything that's shown each season and how it [all] worked for Document and their brand. As I grew in my role there, I started contributing as a stylist at the magazine as well. I would style probably one to two fashion stories a season, in book, as well as online in addition to overseeing all digital fashion commission as Senior Fashion Editor.
After 5 years and 10 issues, I then accepted a role at StyleBop, a global retail e-commerce company where I was the Fashion Director. StyleBop was a combination and culmination of all the job experience I gained over the years. It was very hands on in terms of styling, but also editing the collections for what was right for our current and newly sought after consumer, scouting new brands/designers, and bringing a relevant on trend, editorialized message and visual communication to our consumer. Since coming back [to the States; StyleBop was based in Germany], I am full time freelance with a range of projects that mostly center around styling. Since returning to NY in addition to my normal editorial work, I’ve also branched into celebrity/VIP, and worked in television & film. Some highlights since I’ve been back stateside: I did a very rewarding project with Netflix for Ava DuVernay's powerful mini-series, When They See Us?, about the Central Park Five; now known as the exonerated five. I also did a global Reebok campaign, and was brought on as a costumer for Queen & Slim, under my dear pal and Costume Designer, Shiona Turini.
I've actually been able to do much more outside of fashion and magazines, which is really cool. Applying my talents and skills to other things gave me a new creative refresh.
Ron that's amazing!
Yes, it's good! I'm really excited. Everything's falling into place.
It was kind of hazy, figuring it out. Coming back [to the US] and having all this internal pressure and the unnecessary, unneeded stress of feeling like, ‘Okay, I have to be doing this or I have to be attached to this.’ I found that when I just relaxed and got centered in myself, opportunities came; it's funny because these were not things I would've seen or predicted for myself, at all.
Prior to this for me it was all about working at top- tier publications and being in this high fashion space all the time. It has been nice to work with a variety of talents and on different projects that I can bring my fashion point-of-view to, and in so many ways have my skills feel a bit more appreciated. It's not this super pretentious pressure that you feel working for top tier magazines that can be a puzzle with so many big egos involved. It’s a very challenging space to exist in.
When did you decide that you wanted to be a stylist? When did you first figure out like you wanted to be in fashion and be an editor? And who helped you understand that's what you wanted to do...was there anyone?
Well, it was a process. I've always been quite self sufficient and very steadfast about things. Especially when I'm really interested in them. My first two and a half years here in New York I was at Fordham University and I was dancing with Alvin Ailey on a scholarship. I grew up in Philly and attended the Creative and Performing Art High School [CAPA]. I was a theater major for two years, then became a dance major for two years. I moved up here thinking I was going to pursue a career in the theatrical arts.
Then I had a chronic injury that kept happening in my shins; it was something I always pushed myself through. But there was a point in time while I was in New York, in Ailey, and in these classes/rehearsals with people who had so much experience than I had, and had been doing it so much longer -- that I came to feel that they wanted it so much more than I did. And at that point I kind of just felt like, I love dancing and it definitely served a purpose; but it became one of the things that started to feel more like a chore than it did something I was just genuinely eager and excited about. Even the idea of a dance career and profession.
But when I first started that was all I was into it… obsessed with it, really. My freshman year of high school there was a movement for actors class, and that's where I discovered dance. My sophomore year, my Dad let me pick up dance as a minor before I fully transitioned into dancing as my full major. But even with dancing, I literally learned the foundation of all classical ballet from abt.org. I literally would go home, I would go on ABT’s [American Ballet Theatre] website....I don't know if they still have it but back then they had a full ballet dictionary with all of the terms being demonstrated by dancers from the company. I taught myself how to do all this stuff. And it was cool! I was excited. I was like, ‘Oh my god, I found what I'm passionate about in life. I feel so deeply, I'm so inspired by it, I love watching it’... so on and so forth.
When I arrived in New York and was doing really well; I was definitely one of the advanced students and favored by so many teachers. But then I would always fall into that place of just not doing well, not being motivated, not feeling inspired. Overall just feeling like, ‘Why am I here? What am I doing this for? And do I want to do this for the rest of my life?’ And so I think it was like around my second year, when I came back....because the first year was a bit rough; this is your first time really being thrown into the pre-professional world so of course there's gonna be a lot of adjustments. I also got an injury that summer vacation that acted up when I went back for my second year. I got the same feeling where I was unhappy and so my performance was suffering. At that point, I knew -- it was time to step away from this. My thought was that, I still have a reverence for the art. Why not leave while I still love it as opposed to staying in it and looking up, not knowing how many years later, and being super resentful. Then being like, ‘Okay, well, what the fuck do I do now?’
Then it was like, well if I'm not doing dance, what else do I do? And it wasn't easy figuring that out; going to an arts high school, my whole developmental phase going into young adulthood was me being inside of a dance room or in a rehearsal. It was school, and then you have rehearsal at night, rehearsal on the weekend; seven days a week I was booked. I think being in New York City for two years feeling like I hadn't experienced much of anything was also something that pushed me out of dance. I hadn't experienced the city and I wasn't experiencing situations that would allow me to tell a more genuine story as an artist. I wasn't going below 34th St, or going above 72nd Street. My whole life was dance; but I just knew there had to be more.
So then I was looking at colleges that friends in high school were attending; they were going to fashion schools like FIT and LIM. These schools were interesting to me; growing up a career or dialogue within luxury fashion wasn’t even a thought. Of course being from Philly I had style, but at that point style to me was like Rocawear, or Sean John... it was that type of vibe. Maybe the highest that would go would be like a Diesel. [laughs]
While I was thinking about transferring schools and trying to find something different, I remember calling my mom and being like, "Hey, so... not so into this anymore. I think I'm gonna try this fashion thing." And at that point, my parents were kind of like, ‘Okay. Well, you’re going to do what you want to do. Because that's been your whole process.’ [laughs] They weren’t wrong! I forced them to let me go to CAPA. I made sure I got in, stayed on track, and graduated, then moved to NY and was ready to play with the big boys after about 3 years of training.
So with their support, boom! I started seriously looking into different schools. LIM lured me in with all of these cool majors like Visual Merchandising and Color Theory and all these other things. I remember excitedly thinking, ‘Oh my god, I can really learn something here. I can’t believe all of these courses exist within fashion.’ Especially considering the fact that, again, I liked style and I liked clothes -- I could burn down a Gap at that moment [laughs] -- but that interest wasn’t rooted in any foundational knowledge.
So I spent time learning and obsessing over fashion history and design, and I was obviously looking to intern and get that experience right away to really see what I could do with this interest after school. Initially I thought that I wanted to be a buyer because I wanted to have an impact and influence on what merchandise people could actually purchase. And then I did a small stint at Dior and that was nothing but number crunching and I was like...these spreadsheets and all of these mathematical equations are not for me! [laughs]
So then I was like, what else is there? And ended up at BET as my first internship. It was at a styling program; obviously, being a black kid from Philly, it’s like, ‘Oh, shit, it's BET!’ It was 106 and Park, it was Terrance and Roxy...the whole shebang. I did a crash course there, working with the stylist and the style director for the network. And that's when I realized that I liked this idea of being able to express yourself and put together clothing in a very creative way. So, I left BET and then my next internship was Complex.
And I think Complex is where I really got an idea of like, whoa...I want to pursue styling in the magazine, editorial world. There I was working with the fashion director Anoma Ya Whittaker at the time. What was cool about Complex was that the magazine was so ahead of its time. Obviously if you look at the current day and what's happening socially and culturally, Complex was talking about this way back then. It was always about the cool rappers and street culture and finding this niche underground scene. Letting people know that this what’s actually cool.
Right, exactly. Putting on for the culture before high fashion swooped in.
Working there I was also working with these different musicians and able to see this side of styling as well. Because what was also cool about their fashion focus was that they were working with a lot of talent, as opposed to just models. So it was interesting for me to see how you come and conceptualize this world around these clothes, with the team like a photographer and a model, with talent, hair, makeup, etc, and then be able to tell that story.
I think that resonated with me, because it sounds a lot like theater in a way. I mean, all these different aspects come together to be able to tell the story about whatever the subject was at hand. Just creatively working deep in research: finding the best clothes, researching who this artist is, researching who the photographer is that can all come together and make this a compelling visual story. So I think Complex was where it really ignited and solidified that for me.
After that, I think I went on to V and V Man. And then that's when my real fashion training began. At that point I was still at school learning all the textbook stuff; that program was geared much more for those who wanted to go into more of a corporate fashion space. There were definitely meaningful courses and learning about Cristobal Balenciaga and those iconic figures that definitely still stand as pillars in fashion today, but this world of magazines and editorials was something you couldn't learn at school. You had to learn it through real world hands on experience.
So I went to V and V Man, and that was just Crash Course Fashion 101. It was around 2009, when everybody was coming through that magazine. That’s when Nicola Formichetti was working with Lady Gaga but you also had Joe McKenna doing shoots, great Bruce Webber stories... literally every big fashion powerhouse name was coming out of that magazine. And for me -- here's something about myself -- I'm never afraid to be intensely interested in something. If I love it -- I have an addictive personality -- I will dive in, I will read about it, I will talk about it, I will watch movies about it, because I'm genuinely interested in what this world is. So similar to dance where I had to play catch up; I probably started dancing three years before I moved to New York so that was a lot of me putting in overtime and doing my due diligence. It was making sure, since I wanted to be a professional in a couple of years, that I put the work in now. You’ve got to put in work for it. And that kind of happened to me in fashion. Obviously, I end up at V and I'm in this very high fashion space. I didn't know these photographers. I didn't know a lot of these designers. I don't know these stylists. So as I'm working there I'm soaking in information and knowledge overtime. I'm going home and I'm reading and looking at old magazines, I'm looking at credits, reading the mast-heads. I was figuring out, ‘Okay, what are all these people doing and contributing?’ All of that work was forming a solid base for me to be able to take on my next roles in the years to follow.
Now was that and was that intimidating? I feel like the switch from Complex to V is a huge jump but also it's just a totally different type of editorial style. How did you handle that?
I mean I was super intimidated. I ended up being there for a year; I would probably say my first four to six months were honestly hell on earth. Because you were in these places, especially at a place like V, where I was probably one of eight interns at the time. It’s obviously this competitive nature where everyone wants to be the best and star intern. But also, a lot of these kids were art history majors or had come from families where they've always understood or had been exposed to the luxury space in fashion. Or, they’ve even just dreamed about it for a really long time. And here I was, probably six months prior being like, ‘Oh! I want to do fashion now. Let's see what I can do and how I can get my feet wet in this.’ So it was definitely intimidating. Also I was definitely the only black person in that office so I didn't see anyone there that was like me or that comes from the same background that I did. Everyone coming in would have on their [luxury] pieces and different things like that. And I’m just like, I’m here to work, dressing crazy, but to learn and soak up as much as I can. So it was definitely really intimidating. But again, when I want something like nothing stops me from getting it.
Also I worked under two really amazing editors there. And they were always really supportive. They were nice, they were cool; but the environment was just super...it was tense. Especially back then, it was a high fashion environment but they were the cool kids in the high fashion community; so that added a bit more stress.
And then after that, I left there and that's when I started my career as a stylist assistant.
What has been, to date, the turning point for you in your career? Where you just felt like you went on a different trajectory, or you started kind of living this life that you had envisioned?
Living the life I envisioned? Still not sure if I'm there. [laughs]
Lucky, I think there's definitely room to continue to grow but there have been a couple of milestones in my career so far. It's one of the things that's like as soon as you hit one goal, the next goal becomes so much further away than what you envisioned that to be so you're always moving.You’re never really hitting the goal and being like, cool, done with the game. It's then game two, game three, game four...gotta go to the playoffs! [laughs]
So, I would say V was definitely a turning point. I learned so much, met so many amazing people. And it really was the foundation of everything I know and can do these days. Starting with me just working in the fashion closet, working with those designers, endless contacts, obviously unpaid but going to shoots and being able to work and see how these amazing iconic images and ideas are brought about. It was a turning point.
Also, when I was done assisting and I got my first magazine job at Document, that was a huge turning point for me. Because at that point I definitely wasn't my own boss, but I was no longer the assistant. I wasn't styling right away but there was a lot for me to develop within the fashion department at Document because I literally came on the end of the first issue. And so before that there was no Market Editor; there was no real fashion contact person outside of the Creative Director at the time. He had taken on the Fashion Director title and he was able to put the book together creatively, but he definitely needed help with managing those relationships and understanding advertisers and just someone who knew that market space and how to bring that to the magazine. What was interesting about Document was it was also going to set me up; my fashion bootcamp training wasn't done but it was putting me in a space to begin to be that much closer to formulating my own ideas and having an opinion on what worked and what didn't work for us. And as the Document brand was growing I was really shaping that point of view, too. So that was definitely a very big turning point.
And then I got to style stories -- which, in a place like Document where it was literally the best of the best contributing, it was ‘little old me!’ who was sneaking in. I would get my front of book portrait stories, and then eventually, I was doing main fashion stories alongside some of the biggest stylists in the world. That was this internal realization like, ‘Whoa, you can actually do that. Your voice is valued, your voice is heard. It's not easy, and I'm not saying it comes without much resistance, but if you put your mind to it, you can do this...you can be a part of this fashion thing.’
Was that the first time you felt seen in your industry? Really seen and respected and appreciated?
It took some time, and I feel like I’m still shaping that space in my career as I’m still young (I’d like to think, ha!). The American market & independent magazines... those two things don't really go hand in hand. Like If I were in London or Paris, all of those independent books are just as highly regarded as your big commercial books here. But here, it's really about those big commercial books first. Obviously we had our independents like V and Interview, but they had been around for so long with such a high fashion profile.
So when Document was coming about at that time it was something completely new and raw in this space when people were telling you that print was dead and you'd be crazy to open up a magazine. For the first year or two years working there, we were still fighting for respect; and it wasn't even a personal thing, but for the respect of the perspective of this book that you worked at. It was a lot of calling designers and calling these PR firms and begging for looks. Being able to go to my first Dior show, being able to go to my first Chanel show and to go to Hermes and then go to the re-sees and be in the conversation with people who seemed so out of reach to me. I think at that point it was really only Directors and up who were attending these shows -- the Fashion Directors, the Market Directors, Creative Directors, Editor in Chief, and the really strong freelancer stylists as well. In terms of the editorial world, this 25 year old black boy was sitting in a room with the mega players who have been doing this 10 plus years.
And then another milestone became when I saw my name credited on creative pages in the magazine: styled by Ronald Burton III or edited by Ronald Burton III -- that was like a huge thing for me. And then when people started to think of Document, I became the face that they would associate with the magazine. But I think that’s one reason why I don't celebrate these milestones as often as I should when they're happening is because it's always about, okay, well, what's next? How do we push this forward? How do we move? I try not to really get stuck in that moment because I know that there's still so much more work to be done.
I had been at Document for five years at that point. I knew the magazine like the back of my hand; from a press perspective, I was kind of the face of Document at that point. And that was all great, well, and fine, but there was more and I needed more. It's funny because in my last couple of years at Document, publishing was getting really weird. There were definitely thoughts going to maybe a bigger more commercial publication with budgets, a corporate card, all of those things. But it didn't really pan out that way, and it didn’t feel honest for me, I liked my ball of low budget but top tier creativity. As I mentioned before, I had always been really interested in the retail sector of the business. I mean some stylists love fashion for the image making but I love fashion, genuinely for the clothes. I love clothes. Like when I'm seeing things come down the runway, yesI'm thinking about ideas and stories, I'm looking at trends; but I'm also looking at like, what the fuck do I want to wear?! And also like, what the fuck do I want to see people around me wear?
My line of thinking was shifting too, okay this is cool but how does stuff get into the hands of the consumer? How are people being able to celebrate what we celebrate in these pages? How can I take what's happening here and just reach a larger, more global audience? The pros and cons of working at an independent title is that yes, you can be as creative as you want; you're not really playing by a big corporation's type of rules. But then you start to create and nurture in a very small, very sectioned off base. And so it was great to edit these images and work in a book like this and be very prestigious, but if I told somebody where I worked outside of New York, outside of a creative spirit circle, they'd be like what? What's that?
And then another more recent milestone, when I got the chance to move to Munich, Germany, and I was finally a Fashion Director. And I had the opportunity to make those decisions about what clothes could get to the consumer and how we would visually communicate that.
I didn't come from a fashion background or grow up wearing these luxury garments, so for me it was like how can I have this be seen by others -- what platform can I use this on -- so people know that this is possible. This is here.
How would you say that your work and like coming into all this and realizing all this and understanding more about what you want to do? How has that helped you? or forced you to grow as a soul or like just to grow in your own personal evolution.
I can answer that in a few different parts because it's obviously something that I'm still going through, and there are still new realizations that I'm realizing today.
But I think it was when I started to produce my own work; I had to really dig into what I wanted to say. I wasn't at a commercial book where it was just easy for me to populate trends or to say, ‘Oh, it's all about pink this season, let's do a story on pink.’ Document was much more of a social and cultural book, and definitely pushed you. It was one thing to kind of be the gatekeeper in terms of the markets and overseeing fashion and accessories from that point of view, but it was another thing to be creative that was actually putting together and being responsible for the story, having your name on the story and feeling confident enough in your idea to be like, this is what's relevant right now. This is what I want to do. This is what I want to talk about.
That had its challenges because I think that's where my insecurities came up. I hadn’t been doing this very long, I don't know as much as this person knows. I'm not familiar with all these photographers and different references. I know I have something to say; but actually, what is that. Especially in my beginning years of fashion I was just trying to find a place to fit. It wasn't necessarily about being Ronald Burton in that space, it was just about being a body that was ushered through the ranks. And you look up and you're behind these big magazines and those things start to define you. It's Ronald Burton at Document Journal.
So when I started to do those stories I really had to dig within myself and say okay, ‘Here's your moment!’ This is what you've been in dozens of fashion closets for, this is what you prepped up gazillion shoots for, you're getting your first story. That was the start of me having a conversation with myself and trying to understand, now that you're in this space, what do you want to do and say within this space? Ronald Burton, the individual -- especially the way that magazines and publications are going right now, and the Instagram craze is starting and everyone's a stylist and everyone's a creative -- what's your creative voice? What have you done all this for? Why have you been at Document? Why were you at V? All those things.
So I think it's kind of a constant evolution. I mean, every day I'm learning something new and I'm learning something different. And I'm coming to terms with not knowing everything at once. And allowing myself to be present in the space and work within that, work through that, and then take that to the next level. I find that that's gonna be a process in every stage of my career.
It can be so hard to dive into those insecurities and really trust yourself enough to say that my voice is enough. And you get through one shoot and you're like, Okay, did it; but I have to do this again.
Every single time I'm preparing something, it’s completely nerve wracking! The reason why I was home for five days not coming out of the room or doing anything was because I just wanted to just feel relaxed.
Because work brings me so much anxiety. Every single shoot it’s relentless. I can't wait till the day where I'm in a place where I feel so secure and clear on what it is that I want, and know, and x,y,z. But I'm still not in that place; I second guess myself all the time, but I think as a creative you need to. I think what was interesting about going to a place like StyleBop where I was a Fashion Director, is that I probably had 30 direct reports across seven different departments; I had to make all those calls and decisions, creatively speaking. That's probably the first time that it was like, if shit doesn't go right, I'm responsible.
And that was because we didn't have a creative director. So I kind of took on those duties as well. I was reporting to my CEO, that was my direct report. There was no other fashion voice to go to. So it was like, no, no, no, no, you're that voice now and you have to be able to pull that trigger and say, this is it. And I think that's another thing that my work has taught me and evolved: it forces you to make decisions. It forces you to get to that space of being very definitive.
Oh, I love that space though. It's so fantastic when you're there.
Absolutely. You have to make a decision or you have to make a call. And leading up to that, all the experience I got was preparing me for that. And it seeped into my life overall, that decisiveness. This is what you want to do. You want to wake up and you're going to put on that jacket today; you're going to go here, you're going to see this. In every aspect of my life it was forcing me to look within and make solid choices. It was forcing me to grow, it was forcing me to evolve, it was forcing me to put myself out there.
Looking back over your life, which moments have been critical and shaping you into the person you are today?
Hmmm...this conversation is everything that I actually need right now.
I think I think it goes back to me getting accepted into my arts high school. I think that was a place where I really, for the first time of my life, felt like I knew in some way, shape or form what I wanted out of life; what I wanted to do. And I knew that...as much as an artist and as a performer and all those things that I've done... I've always liked to describe myself as an expressionist. Because I have and I will continue, God willing, to express myself in so many different mediums. I want all of those things to be representative of me and my development and my growth. And when I think about how I've been in New York since 2006, about 14 years now, that's what all of that was for. When I look back I’m like, you were a theater major for two years, you were a dancer for four years; you kept hopping around.
But it was that creative space that brought me to New York. It was that creative space that led me to find something else creative. It was that space that was like, your purpose on this earth is to express yourself; your purpose on this earth is to let your voice be heard and know that it can potentially be the voice of so many others who need to speak up and also who may not have that ability.
I think even growing up even back that down to elementary school I was always afraid of being heard. I would get into things just to be a part of, or just to do; but it wasn't much that resonated with me. And I think that when I found performance and I found art, as cliche as it may sound, it gave me a reason for living.
I love that I did the expressionist idea, I think it’s fantastic. And it’s exactly I think what so many of us are trying to do; being black and in these industries where you’re just not at the forefront of the mind of the majority. Meanwhile there are so many stories that we have to tell about ourselves. Historical and personal stories that we can pull from that no one's ever touched.
I think what's so amazing about the shift that's been happening over the past couple of years, is realizing that there is faith and there is validity in everyone's voice being heard. Being at V and when I was assisting and all those earlier years in fashion, it wasn't this explosion of diversity. In many instances I was the only black person in the room; oftentimes the token black boy. Going to Paris, in the very beginning of my start at Document, there were only a handful of brown faces. What you see now when you go to the shows, you see so many editors of color and creatives of color. So many different films are being brought to life, so many different actors and actresses... there's just something so magical about what's happening now. I hope this isn’t just a trend or fad. Representation is important.
Even just having the chance for the next and the younger generation to come and just be completely disruptive and just create! We come from a school where -- and I think our adjustment curve was -- we were very studied, we were very meticulous: I do this to get here to do this to do this, and then boom, boom, boom. And these kids are coming and they were like, ‘Fuck this playbook?! Why would I have to do that?’
And don't get me wrong, I see pros and cons to it. [laughs] I really appreciate my study and the formality and the craft; but there is something about, again, that disruption that just leads you to a brilliant path of just discovery.
And it's within all of that, that I feel like, I'm so much more secure in ideas that I have and what I want to say. Because it's heard! Like when I wanted to do my first story for Document, I remember it was difficult because it was kind of my first time putting together a really big shoot like that. I think it was like, 16 pages? It ended up closing the issue. But me and the photographer Benedict Brink, we came up with the story. That was there time where everyone was ripping off the culture left, right and center, streetwear was becoming luxury sportswear and so on and so forth. And my idea was to do a cool street casting of boys and tell their story. Boys that reminded me of myself growing up or boys that I grew up with. Just hanging out in the neighborhood; being the point of inspiration for so many but not being represented.
And so I put the shoot together and it was funny because Sheck Wes was actually one of the models in the shoot! And I remember being there and he's a young Harlem kid and he's like, "Yo I wanna do this music thing!" And I was like, 'Cool! That's dope... but also put these clothes on." [laughs] But what was so interesting about him and what was so interesting and magical about that shoot was the personality and the energy of these boys made the story and that's what the story really was about. It wasn't about the clothes... all that was just a backdrop. Sheck had so much personality. And also when he put clothes on, the way he wore the clothes, the way he moved in the clothes, the way his swag changed, when he spoke to people. We took him around the neighborhood! The first day of shooting in Harlem, based out of my apartment, and it was literally like, 'Alright let's put something on, let's walk around, let's vibe.' He bought his girlfriend at the time to set, we dressed her, and we got some really cool, amazing and magical moments. And then the second day, there was this model Chris Fernandez, whose home we went to in Ozone Park, Brooklyn.
And meeting his mom, meeting his little brothers, like hearing him tell his story. Being in the neighborhood and how modeling was changing his life and his opportunities. That's the point when I was like whoa, this is...valid...this is me. And I'm able to be a part of this, I'm actually able to now orchestrate this; whoa! How fucking mind blowing is that? And to have really well regarded people look at the story and say, yo, that was a fucking killer. My first time styling a big story, I closed the entire issue.
Amazing, which is insane.
Which is Insane!! That's probably shortly after I started traveling internationally for the shows I was 25, 26. That was huge!
And how do you stay inspired? Like who inspires you? Who do you turn to for advice? How do you find inspiration?
In my path and in my journey of self discovery, there are always these intervals of self exploration. So I'm inspired by what questions I'm looking to be answered for myself at that moment. Does that make sense?
Yes. And finding the answers through your work or using your work to help you develop the answer.
Exactly. It's so many things; to be honest, it's life, it's a continued dialogue about the world we live in and how I maneuver and transition through space. And it has to be something that I feel like resonates with me. At this point, I'm tired of chasing or trying to fit into the mold of this idea of high fashion or luxury. It's evolving that narrative and evolving how I come into that space and how I can be great in that space. And it starts with what I know!
It starts with growing up, it starts with my culture, it starts with the music that I listen to; even the photographers who I feel capture images that resonate with me. It is urban culture for me. I think that's where I look. I think when it comes down to it, I always want it to feel; I want things to be tangible. So I'm always most inspired, or my attention is always caught, by things that make me feel.
I love crying... laughing. Like, I'm that person! Like, I love going through all the motions! I do, I love it! Like I can't wait to go see If Beale Street Could Talk and bawl my eyes out. I couldn't wait to go see Beautiful Boy and Boy Erased was like, whoaaaa! This story!
Whoa, actually thank you for this conversation, I'm learning a lot from that.
Love! Final question, what does feeling seen mean to you? Being seen and feeling seen.
Feeling seen, what does that mean to me? Oh that tickles me.
It gives me...it gives me purpose! As decided and decisive I am about things I'm literally a big ball of insecurity. And I'm also a big ball of walking anxiety. I think being in that space of being and feeling seen it's like...I think back to Lupita's speech when she won an Oscar; All dreams are valid. And I think that...you always have these ideals and visions for yourself; you always say, I want to be here and I want to do this and I want to do that. You can say, 'Well, I could see myself in the future the next five to 10 years...' But it's one thing to be talking about that time and it's another thing to actually be in that moment and realize, woah...I can actually do this. There’s always some uncertainty where it's like, well, am I made for this? Do I have something to say here? Is my point of view acknowledged? And is it acknowledged and tolerable, not to just my fellow creatives and the people who I respect and admire, but is it digestible to those who don't know yet what their future has and what it holds? Feeling seen is a lot of things.
It's actually interesting because it also forces you to step back from that constant hamster wheel of just moving, moving, moving and realizing that you are being seen; you are being heard. Growing up and having people not always fully understand me, whether it was because of my sexuality or my interests, for me to kind of stand here today and to be who I am and to feel so confident and comfortable (but at the same time, not confident, very uncomfortable [laughs]) it’s important! Even that dichotomy I love. I love being a host of contradictions, because it keeps things interesting. It keeps me growing and keeps me moving and keeps me constantly evaluating; which is something that I hope never ends as long as I'm living on this earth. I always want to be curious. I always want to know more and why and where, because it's so easy to be boxed in, to get comfortable and complacent even in just your perspective.
It takes the utmost courage and vulnerability and pain and joy to be seen. To be heard. So to actually be in that space...it’s like a self warming pat on the back.
That's a question I've never thought about until now. And I guess it's also just knowing that your vulnerability and what you give as an artist and as a creative... is seen by others. We don’t aim to seek validation from others, but in a way we kind of always do. Otherwise, what I'm doing is completely self masturbatory.
I do need the validation from other people. I do need you to say you feel this, you understand this; I do need you to say you're right here with me. I do need you to say woah, this is amazing and brings me to where you are. As creatives, it's so important to share real stories with each other. Maybe that's what brings so much anxiety to my work is that it’s a constant, self analysis of me asking myself, ‘What do you have to say now?’
Yeah. It's hard to be vulnerable! That damn much.
I think me being so vulnerable is coming from the space of being so layered as a person: I'm a man, but I'm a black man, but I'm a black gay man. There are already so many notions and stereotypes of what I am and what I'm doing or who I'm supposed to be. I guess in so many ways I'm totally un-pc...and because of all those things a lot of fucks are just really not given! [laughs]. And so it allows me to really tap and dig into everything that I feel. And that’s something that I really pride myself in my friendships, and just relationships that I have in general; being vulnerable with one another. Through vulnerability comes growth. Complacency breeds nothing but stagnancy. Especially as an artist, as a creative. It's funny because I don't even know if we know sometimes what we signed ourselves up for. We have no fucking idea!! And you want to talk about fucking therapy! It's what we do on a daily basis! Just living and maneuvering through all of that...it's a session every day all day.
I think that could probably be what I could say is my biggest accomplishment so far. It's just being seen. It's being seen and it's being heard.