Profile 010: Eric McNeal, Independent Stylist

While you may not know his name unless you’re inside the community, you’ve seen and admired Eric’s work. From developing the visual identity of renowned fashion label Pyer Moss through runway and campaign styling to Met Gala looks for the industry’s top models, Eric has been a pivotal force in many people’s journeys. We sat with him to discuss his own journey, the special ways that he works with his clients, and the importance of delivering work that speaks to his community.

How would you describe the fullest extent of your title? 

I think for me, and the artist that I am, I'm more than a stylist. I’m a child of God and, and all these other things, but when it comes to my work, it’s such an extension of me that it's kind of like another skin. The projects that I do and that I've done in the past five years of me truly coming into my own are really special to me.  I'm an artist because I collaborate on every single project; every single thing that I'm a part of, I'm ingrained in. I’m somebody who really fits with every task and every job that I'm given and I live in it. 

I think that that's what an artist is; somebody who cares about their work and somebody who wakes up and creates with the intention to put things out there in the world as their own. There's so many things that I want to do and so many things that I’m doing that are not even in the scope of fashion, really. 

I love that. When did you come to that? When did you realize that your role was much more evolved, and/or when did you realize that you wanted your role to be more evolved? How did you come to this?

Oh, my gosh, I gotta go way back. Long story short, I'm a New Yorker born and raised and have been here my whole life. I wanted to work in music. I really had a passion for music. All my friends were aspiring rappers, they all were artists and musicians, my mom was an aspiring singer, so music was just in my house. That's all I really knew. Fashion really was just a part of my mom and kind of my aunts. I'm from a family of pretty much all females. I have one younger brother, but I have so many aunts and women who just drive my life. 

To take you way back, I would spend my summers with my Aunt Geneva in South Carolina. She had an atelier and she made prom dresses in a small trailer for all the girls in the area. I remember being young in second or third grade and seeing the way that clothes, when she would make them and fit them, would change their wearer’s position in the world. Like, going to prom is such a big thing and it would make these young women feel really good. 

Also you have a black mom who's like, “Presentation is key,” and you're a black man. When my mom was getting ready for work, it was kind of like therapy because she would do her makeup and her hair and she would take so much time. And I would always watch her get ready. It was kind of like our thing. I was like, oh my gosh, she’s really putting in a lot of effort! I learned that you put a lot of effort in how you look.  And my mom would put that effort into us. So I was very much a pretty boy. Paying attention to how I presented myself was something my mother really instilled in me.

Once I knew fashion was what I wanted to pursue, it was really full steam ahead. I met Rachel Johnson, Kesha McLeod, oh my gosh, I had the opportunity to work with so many black stylists and fashion editors straightaway. I jumped a lot of hurdles early on, earlier than a lot of my peers. So I've put in a lot of time. I was always the youngest person on set. 

When I really kind of knew that being a stylist was more than just putting together looks was when I worked with Memsor Kamarake who was the fashion director for Vibe. Vibe was such a pivotal part of our culture.  I would see him move and work and how he did things. And I was like, oh, wait, he's not just a stylist. He’s a fashion editor. He's creating imagery. There's a level of care that he had, and that's when I knew. I was so grateful to have had opportunities with so many amazing top-tier black stylists, who then connected me with other stylists and people in the industry. I actually met Memsor through Jason [Rembert].

You just listed a whole lot of different people who were obviously really pivotal in shaping your career. It seems like with Jason, and even since then, you’ve obviously blossomed. So during your time with Jason, when you were assisting, what did that teach you? 

Oh my gosh, that taught me everything! Jason and I were both coming into our own at the same time. We were just two people who were like, you know what, we have a passion for fashion, and we have taste. Through working together we realized that we're really the same in a lot of ways. I always had more of an artist kind of mentality. Jason is hella ambitious, it's kind of like Kerby [Jean-Raymond] in a sense, they have that thing. 

 I worked with Jason for five, six years. Through our time together I really grew and became so much more than an assistant. Working for him and his clients meant a lot to me and I know I meant a lot to them. I was given so many opportunities I would have never had elsewhere, and was treated as so much more than an assistant. I got to see all sides of the operation, from publicity to creative. Doing that and also working with Kerby simultaneously, that's when I just knew this is my rhythm. And I learned a lot in that time.

And in the middle of them, especially when you're doing more than your role, which I think we end up having to;in order for us to really do our jobs, we do have to be the therapist, and we have to know what's happening on the publicity front, and we do have to manage the personalities, and everything else that comes along with it. 

One hundred percent. I would always say when I broke out on my own: people don't realize how mentorship is so important. I was guided and mentored by some of the best, and they really helped me hone my skills. I was able to see all sides of the industry, both bad and good, through these experiences. You see everything clearer when you’re in the back.  It reassured me, that when it was my time, I would know exactly what's coming. I know how to maneuver, and I know how to really establish who I want to be. 

I've been in the thick of it with so many different things and people. Not saying I’ve seen it all, but in my short time, I'm only 28, I've just seen a lot.

And so you assist with Jason, you have all these amazing people you’ve helped. When did you kind of go out on your own? When did you know it was time? And what made you decide that it was time?

This is so deep. This is before the American, Also [Pyer Moss] show which changed the game for us, the show where we explored the stories of black cowboys from the 19th century.

That was a pivotal moment. I remember I cried during that show because it was such a shift.  

And I was like, I never have time to cry at shows, I’m always two days later like, oh my gosh, this is amazing! But I remember it had to be 2016. And I had a spiritual awakening. I knew it was time for me to make a change.

I remember calling Jason and explaining this revelation that I had. And he really just jumped in like the friend that he has always been to me and was so supportive of the move he knew I had to make for me and my life. I also think Jason could feel that I was ready. He knew what was on the other side of that hill for me

I remember Memsor would always talk to me about taking the next step. I used to be like, “when are you ready to jump on your own?”  And he's like, “Eric, you're ready when you know you're ready. When you know the risk of doing and being on your own, that's when you're ready.” And I was like, “Okay, cool.” And that was it. 

And I remember just going home to my apartment and just being like, sooo yea... now what? Joan Smalls was the first one to reach out before really anyone knew I was out on my own. We had developed a friendship over the years and always gravitated towards one another. She emailed me she was like, “Hey, would you want to style me?” And I was like, “Bitch, yes!” That was it. Then Vince Staples. Then Kerby and I met at like Pearls or something, and he was like, “Yo, I’m about to buy my brand back, I’m about to do this, I'm about to do that. Could you come back and do the things?” It was kind of a six month span of everybody kind of not knowing that I was kind of panicking behind the scenes, not knowing how I was gonna pay rent. And then everybody kind of showing up for me and the universe kind of like hugging me like, “You're good, you got it.” I didn't even know that so many people were rooting for me throughout all those years; really wanting me to succeed which means the world to me. People really didn’t know I was out on my own until after American, Also. Then everything fell into place. 

Wow. Would you say that that was kind of the biggest turning point of your career, that decision to go out on your own?

It was! Of course I was anxious about really going out there and making the shift, but I was confident in my work and my ability. I knew I was already more than an assistant, I was respected by the people I worked with and for. I felt seen for what I could bring to the table.

But I didn't really know what my life was gonna be like. And I think not knowing what your life is gonna be like is scary.

Was this also the first time that you felt seen in your industry? Or if not, when was the first time?

Noo, it was way….before that.  I don't even know how to answer that. Because the thing is, I didn't feel seen for a long time. Through my work with Pyer Moss, that all changed. I saw the way that my work liberated my people. 

Really when we did like the American, Also campaign and I started seeing the effect it had. And I think for Kerby, too, it was like whoa. With the response that we got I think people really felt so liberated, I think that's when I was like, People are seeing me and my worth.

I feel seen more by people who are not in the industry. That for me is feeling seen because you really are putting your people on your back, truly. And you're really just being like, this is how I see Black identity in the fashion spaces. How I see Black normalcy. This is how I’m going to translate it in my work. And once you translate it in a way that speaks to a large group of people, it's something that's really special. For me when I really felt my most seen at our Weeksville show. Because that was the one that really fused it all. That’s where I’m from, Weeksville. 

Fashion is elitist, right? It’s not really built for us. I had this sort of homecoming then, without realizing it in the moment. I’m always so caught up in seeing the bigger picture and moving forward, then I had this moment where I was  kind of like wait, hold on, this is where I grew up, this is where I went to school, this is where I did this…. I know that this is my community. I know what it's doing to my community. And I know that a lot of these white fashion folks, they've never been to these areas. It's kind of like, “What is this relic of an area?” So you feel seen because your family is just like, “Wait, Eric, you’ve brought everything that you've done...to us.”  They didn't have to find it, if that makes sense. I’m always so stressed so I’m not thinking of these things, and so when I reflect and I was like, wait I really brought my whole experience working with Jason, working with Rachel, working at Vibe, I brought all of that to the forefront...because my family had never seen it, you know? So that’s when I was like whoa, shit, I'm really doing the thing.

What really makes me feel is seen is my people. Our people.

That for me is the thing. That's the thing that I'm always just like, okay, cool, I have to make this extra special. Because we take our shit seriously. And we take how it's displayed, how it looks...seriously. I think that definitely was the year, that was the time, that show. It always gives me chills when I see it. I’ve only watched it three times because I'm always like, oof, that’s a lot.

In this journey that you've had in all these different roles and capacities, and especially even with that Pyer Moss show, when was the first time that you saw yourself? Because it sounds like in this meditative process you're also really in tune. So when was the first time you saw even a glimpse of who you are? 

That’s actually more of a recent thing. 

I just did my website and my website was a two year process. I've really never had a website that I liked. I'm a nerd secretly. I'm really big into graphics, I'm really big on logos. I'm really big into just visual things. A lot of my friends are graphic designers. I remember being like, you know what, I want to do a website, and I want to do a website where I can show my work in a beautiful way that I'm proud of and I can display.

I think people think that Instagrams are our portfolio. People don’t realize that portfolios are your portfolio. With Instagram, you can't change your layout. You can only delete posts. Websites are so good because they show who you are in your entirety; it’s your blank canvas. It’s a medium that can really speak to who you are as an artist on a personal and individual level. And I think that through that process, I didn't realize how much I was so hard on myself. It was a long road because I had crates and crates and crates of work and I had to just sit with people who I trust. And they kind of were the ones like, “Eric, this is your aesthetic! This is it.” I am my toughest critic. I like what I do, but I have a very musician-like aspect of my creative process because I worked with so many artists. I feel like that once it's done, and once it's gone, it's no longer yours. I don't have a stake in the picture. It’s done, it’s over. 

You do things for the masses, so I didn't release myself. I'm so far from it. So I can look at a picture that I worked on, and really feel whatever about it. I'm just like, okay, I could have done better. My friend, I just sent him everything I've ever worked on and we laid everything out and it's really heart wrenching, when you were looking at your work; your old work especially. I remember just looking at it and just crying some days, like that's terrible! Or getting like, oh my God I’ve been through so much shit like, I'm a relic, a fucking relic. I was like, how am I still working? I was like 20 years old.  Like oh my god I have somewhere to go. Once I started laying out all of my work, and my past work and seeing my taste and what I like, that's when I was like, Okay, listen, this is it. This is who I am as a stylist.

I can finally get on a conference call and be like, this is what I've been doing. This is what separates me from them.  Because this is my work!

My work is hella brown.

I know how to make this thing so real. I know how to not make clothes feel stiff. I can bring it a notch down but it's still elevated. I took me a long time to really figure out what it was that I had to bring to the table and how to articulate that.

And that's the hard part, right? Where you have to really sit and be like, “okay.” Because we have to do so much work when we work for ourselves, you're not thinking about “What project did I really love? How could I have done this better? How could I have dived in more?” Or, “Is what I'm doing where I want to continue to grow?” The clearer that you can get on where you want to be, it allows you to really stay the course, because you can clearly spot when shit is or isn't for you.

Oh, I totally agree.  Because I know what's not for me so...it’s like stopping a bullet. Oh, now that I have, a manager, a business manager and all these things now, they're scared a lot of times. It's kind of like they see the bullet shoot somebody else and are just like, “Yo, Eric, how do you know? How do you know what's not for you?” And I'm like, I know what’s not for me from just being in the background for so many years and knowing how much work is gonna take for me to really do it. I just think of me, I don't think of the job. I'm like, how am I gonna operate? What space am I gonna operate? What's the mindset I'm going to be in when I'm doing this? And I say no to a lot of things. But I always say no, and I'm always like, oh, but I know who can do that. 

Yes. Because you end up knowing, like you said, what your emotional capacity is to give, and If this is going to require more than you have. 

Yeah, cause I don't have a lot. I don’t. 

Because knowing yourself and knowing your client and being there for them is really important, what role does vulnerability play in what you do? 

Vulnerability is what separates me from everybody else. Because vulnerability is transparency. And with vulnerability is honesty, really.  It’s honesty with yourself. It's honesty with your clients. And I think that's what really separates me from so many people in my industry because people just want to book the job, but they don't want to do the job. Or they just want to do the job, but just because it's a job; or because it's for creative capital. A lot of times it's like, oh this is gonna be lit on Instagram. So when you're in the job, you're not being honest a lot of times with the clients, with the process, with the tools you really need. 

My relationships with my clients are very deep. I have fittings for two, three hours where we’re sometimes crying, laughing, decompressing, we're really reflecting on our intentions of what we want to achieve. It's kind of like when people ask you “How are you feeling?” versus “How are you doing?” I’d rather somebody ask me how I'm feeling versus how I'm doing. Because I'm always feeling a different way, me being a Virgo [laughs]. I'm always feeling a different way. And I always like to ask my clients because they're artists, they’re musicians, they have to give so much of themselves to get little in return a lot of times, so I really like to be vulnerable with them. 

It plays such a big part in everything. More than as a stylist or a costume designer or whatever role I show up as, I'm really showing up as a human. I realized that my process is a slower process. It's a, let’s talk about it, let's feel what it's gonna be like. That process is vulnerable. I'm not just coming with confetti, a garment rack and garment bags, I’m coming with a lot of feelings and a lot of wanting things to be right. My creative process is really tough and it can be really toxic because I'm really hard on myself. Because I know what I'm putting out, I know what I want people to see, and I know I want it to be good. Having the intention of something being good is always the best place, but it can be a dark place because you're just grueling with yourself, your mind, body, soul, to really push yourself to what good is - what is good, you know? 

Good really honestly is just you being happy enough to be like I did the best I can.

That's a word. And especially in what we do, to your point, everyday because of your different relationships with a client, because of being able to show up and be vulnerable, good does shift. It evolves and shifts as consistently as you do. Because what good was yesterday might not be good today. Which is why, again, all this gets hard. 

I know that I'm so hard on myself. My friends hate me because they're just like, “Eric all right, cool. You just need to do the job and not grill yourself to be so shook.” I'll scare myself so much that I'm like in the car…[shook]. And that's every job no matter what, because I'm always happy that people want me to show up on set and people want me to be there, and with that gratefulness, you want to do a good job. You have to train and put in the time.

Trust me, my clients hate me because they're like, “Eric, you're really spazzing out. I should be freaking out, and you're freaking out. How are you freaking out?” They’re like, “Eric, you should be lying to me!” And I’m like, I can’t lie. I have to be honest, and this is a mess! But we’re gonna figure it out.

Even in that vulnerability, in that honesty, and in that self awareness, that's why people will trust you too, though. 

Oh, 100%, yeah. The trust that my clients have for me, I've realized it now...it’s not just clothes.

 A part of what I think makes a good stylist is thinking about the body and having respect for the person's body. Kerby, for instance, I style the shows, but then I style him, but I really understand his body, you know, or Paloma [Elesser], I really understand her body and her body in proximity to the world. So when you think about the person's body, and they see that and they feel that, like, “You really care about my body, and which shape I'm in, or what condition I’m in, or do I have the headspace to go to this event because what condition am I putting my body through to do this.” That's what I think about. And it's something that I've been thinking about now that I'm older and I'm concerned about my body and how clothes feel on me and how they make me feel, and I think that's what really makes a good stylist, a good costume designer, really. You have to have respect and appreciation for a person’s body in order to do good work.

I see the difference that makes when I step out into the world, when me and my clients are out at events or parties around our peers. You see when people don’t care about the person's body. You see that they just care about the clothes that they’re putting on them.  But I actually care about the person's body. Maybe it's a weird thing, maybe it's not the right way to think about it, but I'm always like, well, I know I'm different because I'm thinking about their body, how it's gonna be and how they’re feeling in that moment when they're wearing clothes that I decided for them or that we decided together.

How has your work forced you to grow as a soul? And/or how has your growth as a soul developed your work, or shifted the way you work?

That's such a good question because I think about this all the time, and this is something that I really sit with. 

I've worked with a lot of people. When people are on display or are this amazing artist that we revere, there's a part of them, as in their body, that they don't feel is healthy. A lot of putting out art is just giving away all of yourself. And in giving away all yourself, what do you have left? I always say, once I'm booked and once I'm in a job, I'm essentially a superhero. I’m Superman and I'm just saving everybody and doing the things, really doing my best to make people feel their best. But when Superman goes home - they never show what it's like when the superhero goes home. A lot of times it's lonely. 

And I think that for me, the process is more self healing. And it's more taking the time to really do the spiritual work on myself. And I'm very much into self healing, always patching my wounds back up from when I'm out saving people and doing my work. The time that I'm not working is the time that I really sit and I reflect, and ask what was this process? What did it do to me?

Every opportunity I’ve had to work with someone new has been an organic experience. I’m really grateful that I’ve never felt like I had to sell myself, or compromise who I was, for a job. It was kind of a lot of meeting people and knowing that this is a connection that's gonna work. And I think that in me working with so many different people that are special, you realize who you are. You realize where your mental state has to be to really spar with these people. You really have to be your best self to give your best work. You cannot be somebody who's broken, because if you’re a broken person, you really are putting out broken work. It shows, you know? I’ve worked with a lot of musicians, I've worked with a lot of different people, And you're like, okay, this is why their work maybe looks like that because they’re going through something or they’re hurting. There's maybe a self healing that they have to do. It's a lot that we ask of our favorite people to give us. A lot of times we don't deserve it.

Ooh, all the words. And you’re right.

I mean, you're asking this person for work, but you wouldn’t give that or do that. Most people don't even know the creative, spiritual work that goes into a lot of our favorite celebrities and artists. 

Working with musicians was so powerful for me because then I saw what it takes to actually create something from nothing. And when you put it out, and wonder what's the level of care that people have for it? I think that for me, it's a healing thing. It's a lot of healing that these artists have to do once you put something out. I know after I do these Pyer Moss shows, I'm done for 30 days. 

Yes, don’t hound me! 

Listen, you’re not gonna get another one out of me! We walk away from each other every year being like, I don't know what I just experienced, but my body hurts, my mind hurts. But I'm so happy that my people and everybody is enjoying this. 

Right. But you just gave so much of yourself. 

You just really care. And you really have to have that care for yourself. It took me a lot of time to realize that as much as I care for my work, I really have to be a brother, I really have to be a son, I really have to be there for my life and myself. I really have to hang the costume up and just be a good person, just check on myself, you know? 

And when you're having these moments and having that care, is that when you feel the most authentic and expansive in your role? What are the moments where you feel the most authentic and expansive, like you are fully yourself? 

I do. How can I explain it? 

When I sit with Kerby or my clients, there's a comfortability they feel when they know they’re in a place where the intention is to achieve something good. So your body, your mind, is in another gear of comfortability. Because the care that you have for yourself and your work - everybody around you has that same care. I know sometimes I feel taken care of because I'm like, okay cool, Kerby cares, and I'm about to give the best show that I have. I'm just about to do the best that I can, and I'm coming from that same place. So we're all aligned mentally and spiritually that we're going to do the best we can, and it shows. But sometimes when you work with new things, you have to tackle new responsibilities, and that comfortability goes out the window. You're kind of just in a scary space of creating work. Which you know, being a scary space, you really sometimes create the most beautiful work. And I'm like that now. I know that I'm gonna get to the finish line. I don't know what the finish line is gonna look like, but I'm gonna get there. 

And so in thinking about all that, what inspires you? How do you stay inspired when you get these new projects? 

Honestly, I like to say I like to rest my creative eye. When you keep your creative eye open, basically your third eye open, it can be exhausting. You can't even catch inspiration when it's time. But I know inspiration and ideas come to me in silence. When I'm in silence or if I'm in the barber's chair, I'm just silent. Literally when I'm just quiet. That's when things come to me. I think New York plays a big part in that, because I can just sit in the coffee shop and look out the window with no music or anything, just look at people and just get inspired by the decisions people make when it comes to wardrobes. Like, you picked to wear that today, and that inspires me. So I want to say silence really, for me, and being alone inspires me the most. I like replaying references from my childhood, of things my classmates wore in school in my mind. It’s so key to really just sit with yourself and, this is what I want for this project and how I’m going to push it. 

So I think what inspires me really is stillness. I think that's the word that comes to mind.  

And it sounds like that's a meditative practice too. That's why that stillness is so important, because that's where you can see it all and you can process everything. 

And it's not selfish, either. I know for me when I've decided to go out on my own, there were people that really believed in me and understood that this move came from a place of stillness and reflection.

With everything that you've done, and especially in looking at your website and going back, in knowing how you feel, having that awareness and that meditative process, what legacy do you want to leave behind with your work today? What legacy are you trying to build and leave behind with the work that you create?

I don't know. It's such a hard question. I know where I'm going. It's very clear. The universe and God are really pushing me to the place that I've always wanted to be pushed in.

I love creating worlds. And I think that my time working at Pyer Moss and doing all the shows, the Seven Motherscampaign and all the videos, I've created this world that I've had the pleasure of sitting back and looking at. When I look at the American, Also campaign, at some of the imagery that we've been able to capture, how beautiful it is, and the relationships I still have with those people from the stories that they've told me, that's what I think a legacy is. I think that's what legacy work is. I'm seeing that being referenced now while I'm still living; people are literally doing the same thing that I did. They're trying to recreate magic. I don't know what my legacy should be. But I know when I see a lot of those images, I know because of Twitter and I see people pull up old references; I know what kind of role I'm gonna have in that. Now that imagery is kind of pushed in our mouth. Fashion is just a cycle of old and new. And me being a part of that and styling so many shows, I see variations of things that I've done in decisions that I've made. I kind of know what legacy I will have, just by seeing that.

Like, I see this little thing that I did has some impact, or some culture capital that Jamal Hill talks a lot about. You see that and know what your legacy is gonna be. When people want you to keep doing the same kind of work, then you kind of know like, oh, this is what they think that I am, this is the work that they think that I create. Looking at the jobs that I've done, I've been like, wow, this is how people see me. This is who my peers see me as.

I'm so grateful for people to be asking me to do the things that I want to do. But I'm so grateful that I got to work on this thing that is really something that God sent, because these are the works that speak to me the most. That's what legacy is, when people see things like, “He loves to do black things, he loves those things that are so true directly to his people.” And it's not over their heads. It's straight to the girl that goes to the school on Fulton Avenue, straight to them. It's almost like them seeing themselves in that current state.

And I think that's beautiful. And even in talking about that especially, how do you see the industry evolving for creatives for color, for people of color? For us?

I see it evolving. The crazy thing is, I've worked at Black magazines. Freelanced at Essence, Vibe, and all of these, it was only black people. So I've been on Black sets.

It's going in a beautiful place now. I’ve been lucky enough to be on sets where everybody's Black. The photographers, the grip, the PA, everyone is Black. I want young people coming up to have those same experiences, and to feel uplifted and empowered to do their work. And to be recognized for their work. There’s still so much work to do, but I think we’re getting there.

There was a time where I couldn't name 10 Black photographers, and now I can. There have always been black stylists, honey, they’ve always been around! But now you know who Misa Hilton is, you know who Groovey Lew is, you know who these people are who are unsung heroes. Your favorite R&B video, you didn't know who styled that Dru Hill video that you were bumpin’ back in the day. But now because we really revere these people and their ideas, that’s the beautiful thing about where we're going. There are so many black people now that are working at a high, high volume that I've never really seen, and they're getting into these spaces and staying in the spaces and excelling.  

It's really not about getting a seat at the table; it's about getting a seat at the table, owning the table, and then bringing other people to the table. I think people just are really happy with having a seat at the table, but it's really about owning the table. And it's really about hosting and bringing people with you. It’s like when you’re in the elevator and the elevator is going up, you really have to send it back down. The future of Black creatives really needs to understand that we're a community, we're humans. And it's really about us leaning on each other. I am the first person, I'm not afraid to hit up my peers and be like, I don't know, y'all. Help me!  I don't want to ever operate in any space alone. That's why doing the show and always having people come on and collaborate with me is always such a beautiful thing. I get to see oh, we’re cool and we’re all different.